Can't Tell Who's The Christian and Who's The Atheist Anymore

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I've managed blogs for an Atheist and Agnostic, and sometimes comments roll in. Including some who argue among themselves. There were 3 comments, and earnestly, I'm unsure which was the Christian and which was the Atheist. I'll alter the names to protect the innocent:

******: has left a new comment on your post:
"I would beg to differ with ***** as to why Christianity is suffering from an "image problem" at the start of the 21st century.
The problem... was that as he became more informed about Christianity he began to doubt. He stepped outside of the dogmatic, traditional, "Let's Not Address This Issue Directly" cage and took a good look at what he had been believing, (much like --- hero, Luther, had done at one time) and found it wanting.
Additionally, when he went to those who were supposed to be experts, or at least knowledgeable about such matters, what he was handed was sorely lacking in any form of substance. Compound that with trying to search for his answers in the Bible itself and further not finding them - he turned to outside sources. Most likely the internet. There - of course - he finally found some answers: his faith was based on inconsistencies, myth, plagiarism, historical inaccuracies and in some instances, outright lies. How could he not doubt?"

Why yes... this is true. The church has failed for centuries to teach the truth. In fact, centuries ago falsehoods were circulated, i.e., the Pauline Forgeries, and people like Luther took it upon themselves to attempt translation of a Bible for the common person, and the church wanted to maintain a tight grip on the scriptures, rendering people helpless with the church as intermediator to God... but it was not so. In the midst of this, apocryphal manuscripts circulated... Jesus was the only intermediator between man and God, but the church attempted to superimpose itself into the authority of Jesus Christ.

CONTINUE...

"If --- want to answer him, they would do well to stick with addressing ***** specific problems as opposed to beating the "Here's How I Deal With Stupid Questions" bush. I would submit to ***** that there is a third criteria as a "easily identifiable and telling symptoms of false doctrine": that of obfuscation in answering the intellectual and emotional needs of the fold."

The other person responded, and this person, *****, posted again in response.

"Christians on the whole seem to somehow expect others to take what they have only experienced within the confines of their belief system on faith, for, whether you want to "believe" it or not, there is absolutely no proof that anyone named "Jesus" ever lived."

Testimonies of his existence are preserved in the Bible, and prophecies of the Messiah, but that's beside the point I suppose.

CONTINUE...

"None. Not one shred of evidence - even in the Bible itself - that anyone alive at the time that "Jesus" was supposedly living even ever knew the guy. No scrap of paper, no golden tablet, no stone inscriptions, no burial chamber, no cross, no first-source material (and there certainly seems to be a lot of copies of copies of copies, but not one original torn corner of a papyrus that even indicates that anyone ever knew him), not even any relatives left to give any account of him a generation after the fact! Nothing. Nada. Zip. Pilate: silent. The Sanhedrin: silent. The Romans: silent. On and on and on and on - you'd think that a guy who apparently raised somebody from the dead, fed a multitude on a couple of haddock and shards of bread, turned H20 into Pinot Griggio, got nailed to a cross, died and then came back might have made some form of impression on people. Nope. No one even noticed him apparently amongst the multitudes of other "prophets" of that time.
Not until 70 years later did he even actually start to appear in any meaningful manner, and even then, it doesn't appear that that guy even ever might have known him - just "of him", as it were."

INTERMISSION : Actually it's estimated to have been around 30 years after the death of Jesus, that recorded testimonies came into publication. But continue...

"No, there's nothing "selfish" about questioning the veracity of
Christianity. If anything, I'd say that was a noble endeavor. It is not "egocentric" to want to know - it is the mark of a "God-like" human to seek this so-called "God" out wherever "He" may be, wherever it may lead. It is not selfish or egocentric to admit you don't know something and wish to - it is selfish and egocentric to believe you have the answers when in fact, you don't.

"God or Intelligence: one has to give. One will quench the soul's thirst and the other will be like drinking salt water in the desert."

When Intelligence gives, Ignorance takes over. One could probably bank on that."

And the other person, who posted in the midst of the two comments wrote this,

###### has left a new comment on your post":
"The first problem of doubt stems from the human condition of selfishness, as articulated with "the doubter finds the Christian faith wanting", "the doubter finds God lacking", and "the doubter finds himself need or requiring to know X or Y".
We are an egocentric lot that will forever clash against a God who asks for trust and faith.
God or Intelligence: one has to give. One will quench the soul's thirst and the other will be like drinking salt water in the desert."

God or Intelligence: One has to give??

Am I reading this correctly? One person is denying the existence of God, whilst the other is teaching the falsehood that one must become "ignorant" to be a Christian??

Both appear to be Atheists (or at least, the latter, a Sheep in Wolf Clothing).

Actual scripture states in contrast: King James Bible (Hosea 4:6-9)
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. The more the priests increased, the more they sinned against me; they exchanged their Glory for something disgraceful. They feed on the sins of my people and relish their wickedness. And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings."

Which also brings to mind the very insightful verse, in regard to what the former (presuming, an Atheist(?) stated, which is truly sad:

"He stepped outside of the dogmatic, traditional, "Let's Not Address This Issue Directly" cage and took a good look at what he had been believing... those who were supposed to be experts, or at least knowledgeable about such matters, what he was handed was sorely lacking in any form of substance."

INDEED! as it is written,

Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much grief; and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow."
http://bible.cc/ecclesiastes/1-18.htm, as it was in Jesus' day, he came teaching the Commandments of God (not the law of Moses), but God's law, and for doing so, the corrupt religious establishment murdered him.

And further, indeed: International Standard Version (©2008)
"How terrible it will be for you when everyone says nice things about you, because that's the way their ancestors used to treat the false prophets!"
http://bible.cc/luke/6-26.htm

And yes, if you speak the truth... it will make many enemies, and persecution, which equates to sorrow. The religious establishment (organized religion), the same who murdered Jesus, will turn into a witch-hunt against the righteous, which lead to the Inquisitions and other atrocities against many Saints: Those who keep the Commandments of God, and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Either way, both contributors failed to contribute any positive light, enlightenment on Christianity, and appear to be on the same side: To make a war on the Truth of God, and Jesus Christ.

There was no Commandment among the 10 which stated, "Thou Shall Not Utilize Thy Brain." But some who claim to be Christian, do indeed teach the false doctrine, and often practice it as well.

King James Bible
Jeremiah 31:34 (Old Testament Prophet): "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Hebrews 10: "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more... By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

So who is this entity, called the Church (the lie of Organized Religion which Jesus stood against, and was murdered), which with-holds knowledge, teaches falsehoods, endorses scriptural forgeries, pretends you must go through "them," flawed men, to obtain audience with God... what else was the purpose of Jesus' death and sacrifice? So that greedy preachers and televangelists could store up millions in their bank accounts? Men are unfit to teach the truth!. The corrupt and wicked priesthood who taught idolatry, lead to the destruction of Israel and Judah. When Jesus took his stand against them, they murdered the Lord. God alone has the power, the patience, the knowledge, (the Spirit of TRUTH, through grace in Jesus Christ that we may come into the presence of God, and will be taught by God), who are these persons who have usurped the authority of Jesus Christ himself, to teach falsehoods?

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Why I reject a belief in Satan

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Here's an old movie clip I ran across tonight and it reminds me of what I strongly believe. There's some Christians (at least they claim to be) that ask me, how can I reject a belief in satan and demons and still believe in the Bible? Well, foremost, those things weren't taught by Moses or the early prophets. In the book of Genesis, there is no mention of a dragon, snake, evil spirit. The earliest (true) books of the Bible are not tainted with false gods. The Hebrews continued to pollute themselves with idolatry. Eventually, false doctrines and forgeries such as the book of Enoch (with many tales of demons), began creeping into Jewish religion. God destroyed Israel and Judah. This clip (assuming) comes from heavy influence of early Old Testament doctrines.


First, the nazis who are heavily influenced by anti-Christian socialist influence attempt to open the ark (with no reverence for God). What they find is "sand," and begin laughing (like the Atheists and non-believers they are). What follows is paranormal activity and then ghosts and other "angelic beings" that swamp the scene, and deceiving the onlookers, eventually to show its "dark powers" and consumes them. Of course Harrison Ford warns, "Don't look at it," and keep her eyes closed. And that's how I feel about "Satan" and "Evil Spirits" and other things that are false gods. You can find in the book of Acts, well, I'll let the verse speak for iself:

King James Bible, Acts 23:8
"For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both."

Competing concepts, such as evil spirits, devils, dragons, et cetera crept into Biblical theology toward the time of the destruction of Israel, because they worshipped such things (idolatry). However, this clip from "Raiders of the Lost Ark," shows paranormal activity, as well as ghosts and other phenomena coming from the most Holy Ark. How could evil, come from Holiness? Easy:

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
http://www.bible.cc/isaiah/45-7.htm

The prophets commanded the early Hebrews to abstain from Necromancy, and other paranormal phenomena such as found in witchcraft, but the Hebrews refused. They continued to break the commandment of God which instructs, "Thou shall have no other gods before me."

"The Lost Books of the Bible," The Apocrypha, Commentary (Halo Press, pg. 8)


"Hard Sayings of the Bible", (Intervarsity Press)

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The Lie of Organized Religion

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Did not Jesus teach,

The false teachers mentioned above, and the many like them (2 Timothy 4:3)
"And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."
atruechurch info

Blind Followers of Blind Leaders on Judgment Day
Our Lord, here, is talking about false teachers who are blind to God's ...
that if the blind lead the blind both shall fall into the ditch"
(Matthew 25:41). ...
emorychristians org

God's View of False Teachers and Their Teachings Discernment
All of the false prophets, false teachers, false brethren and false ...
And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
discernmentministriesinternational wordpress com/.../gods-view-of-false-teachers-their-teachings

Christians, you know these things already! Scripture has taught you.

During conversation with a Christian it was said to me,

The scripture states, "how will they hear without a preacher?... But with fellowship with other believers comes the ability to grow in knowledge and faith."

But what happens if they are teaching something that is not true... a falsehood, even Theologians know certain things, taught in seminary, and knowledge never passes on to the typical adherent. The preachers are not allowed to speak the truth.

In 2000, I converted to Christianity for the first time in my life. I felt a strong spiritual force, I was compelled to seek deeper knowledge. Believe it or not, I asked the Sunday School teacher, "Have you ever read the Bible?" His reply was "No". I asked then, "Well then, how do you know its the Word of God?" He was angered no doubt. I asked him "Where does the Bible come from?" He had no answer.

It is scenerios just like I've described above, that lead to people losing faith, deconversion to Atheism, and the complaint is always the same, "I asked where Mrs. Cain came from. They complained I asked too many questions and asked me not to come back." Is this what Jesus would do? Does it hint at even an inkling of a clue, they are even capable of teach scripture? Certainly not.

Today, I know the answers to those questions above, and it was not learned from the church, but from scholars' materials / books.

Back in 2000, I approached the preacher, and asked, because Sunday School just wasn't cutting it how I might learn more -- indepth knowledge. The preacher told me, "Christian Book Distributors," for starters on scholars studies, books by theologians, etc., but he warned me. HE WARNED ME well in advance, that it would pay not to discuss knowledge with many in the church, they would not take kindly to it.

Well, in short, he, the preacher, was fired shortly afterward for becoming too "liberal," that is to say, providing a bit more upbeat music to appeal to younger generation.

And myself? I did indeed discuss the hunger for knowledge, and it got me accused as being "demon possessed".

The Power of God is compelling a person to seek knowledge, and they're accused of "Demons"? Isn't that what they accused Jesus of... and Jesus warned them they were in danger of committing the unpardonable sin? That is, they were calling the Holy Spirit of God performing works in this world, "an act of evil spirits". Great blaspheme.

Instead of the "body of Christ" it turned into a witch-hunt... even the preacher was not immune, and was fired.

The question is, how can they hear the truth, if the preacher is not even allowed to even speak, or teach the truth anymore?

So, I disassociated myself with the falsehoods of the church, and put it on Jesus Christ, the power of God, and reference material like that from Christian Book Distributors... and eventually the web, and other sources. BOOKS TAUGHT ME THE TRUTH, UNDER GOD'S GUIDANCE. Today, the way things worked out, event by event, I have my own outreach with the truth. Thousands of readers pass through every week...

Speaking the truth sometimes makes enemies. Sometimes, it changes the world. I mean, Jesus was so hated by contemporaries of the day, they murdered him, but others know, he was by birthrite, the "King of Kings".

I pray for God to show me the light of truth, and that I will never depart from it. I have faith, that God, through grace in Jesus Christ (my only teacher) will guide the way.

I believe in what you say is true and always will, because my own background with the church. I do believe that the one true teacher Jesus Christ will guide all that have faith, even if one does not tend church. I myself will not go, for the simple reason of the lies they tell. I have also done my own share of reading and found that there were other books that was never printed into the Bible as we know it. But God showed them to me so I could understand more about Him and Jesus.

Oh no.. .the Apocrypha??

They're falsehoods. Seriously, another is "The Book of Enoch" which even Jude quotes in the N.T. False teachers created those forgeries, and wanted to teach people the worship of pagan gods and fictional spirits.

Those books were thrown out of the Bible because they're forgeries and scholars know it. Enoch was mythology / a false book, FORGED to make it even sound as if it was written around the time of Adam's immediate descendents, (centuries earlier), but Scholars know the mythology is late century... written only shortly before the time of Jesus. Scholars know the book of Enoch was a forgery, a mythological falsehood... that's why those books are not contained in the Bible. Thrown out for the evil forgeries they were.

I too, have copies of the Apocrypha "Lost Books of the Bible," and the book of Enoch.

God INDEED showed you a deeper truth about the Bible, that in the latter days of Israel, they were idolators, even Solomon, the fool of fools, an adulterer, erected temples to pagan gods, in his last days he met with his downfall and (some have stated) lived like a beast...

Solomon
Solomon's downfall came in his old age. He had taken many foreign wives, whom he allowed to worship other gods. He even built shrines for the sacrifices of ...
~ jewishvirtuallibrary org/jsource/.../Solomon.html

FOR INSTANCE,

Gods and Goddesses, Pagan - dictionary definition, verses and Bible references ... The proclamation was to be made in the temples of their idols and among the people ... who "cleaned house" by destroying the shrines erected by Solomon. ...
~ biblestudytools com/.../gods-and-goddesses-pagan.html

Milton: PL Book 1 - Notes
That is, the strength of empyreal angels, virtually gods. .... The place just east of the Jerusalem temple, across the Kidron valley, often called the Mount of Olives, where Solomon erected shrines to pagan dieties like Moloch, Baal, ...
~ dartmouth edu/~milton/reading_room/.../notes.shtml

See 666 and Solomon
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6693982/666-and-Solomon

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The Mosaic Law vs. The Ten Commandments - The Power of God's Spirit in Truth and Holiness

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Tonight I saw evidence of the power of God's Holy Spirit. My son is setting in the backseat of the car, and blurts out he wants to learn the Ten Commandments, from the Bible.
Sure enough, he got home and cracked open his Bible, found the scriptures himself, and began reading them. He comprehends the meaning of the Commandments...
It's written in Scripture, through Jesus Christ, they will be taught by God (in the book of Hebrews).

I can not teach him. and, The religious establishment can not teach him (as it was in Jesus' day, when Jesus came teaching the Commandments of God in contrast to the law of Moses (613 Commandments! - ridiculous), was as Jesus put it about their traditions, having made the commandments of God of "no effect".
For instance, Moses, being a man, and having no regard for the interests of women, re-wrote the law to permit divorce (in the interest of males), but Jesus rebuked them saying it was not so from the beginning and further teaching those men, not to even look at another woman or be guilty of adultery.

As you may gather, I do not attend a church. I trust in God to teach me. Occasionally God will use a person, to deliver a truth, but ultimately Jesus is the only "teacher" I need (his testimony), and God's Holy Spirit.

I was so proud of my son. The religious establishment (a lie even relatives will preach at me), "You can't understand the Bible without a preacher." ha ha ha, that's a lie, and is in contradiction of the very reason Jesus died.
The wicked priesthood of the day, had lead the people into sin, and away from God. Most theologians know the significance of the torn veil on the temple at the time of the death of Jesus, (it was an act of divinity due to its size and weight). A giant rip in the veil, which could have only been done by the power of God, and beyond the ability of a human. Ripped from top to bottom. That torn veil meant that any human could then come into the presence of God's Holy Spirit. Before that time, only the High Priest could on the highest holy day. They wore bells on their garments in case they were struck dead (God searching the Priest's heart and mind for impurity). If the bells stopped ringing, there was a rope on the priest to drag him out from behind the veil.

Therefore, it is no small matter to be taken lightly, that any person is even allowed the great liberty, freedom and privelege that we have as true Christians, to enter into the presence of God, and taught personally by God in the precious spirit of truth.

Also, even as a sinner, I can enter into the presence of God, without fear -- in fact, as Jesus taught, the Kingdom of God is within... not here or there, not at a church that sits on a hill, not in Jerusalem: The Kingdom of God, where God's chosen obey the Commandments of God, and are sanctified as a "Holy People," it is within, and the promise to write his Ten Commandments on the heart and mind.

I'm not meaning to sound fanatic religious... but I find the subject of theology of great fascination. When I look at the church, I am sorely disillusioned that they are no longer teaching the truth. But, it was written there would come a "great falling away". As it was in the day of Moses...God told them "Do not commit adultery," and some men up and decided, "well... hmmm, I want to commit adultery... the woman I'm with isn't exciting enough anymore... I need some thrills."
So, bit by bit, piece by piece, they began falling away from the Commandments, one sin at a time. By the time Jesus arrived, centuries later, the corrupt Priesthood didn't even recognize the Commandments of God anymore.

There's Christians telling me Jesus did away with the Word of God. LOL. Sure... save it for God on the day of Judgment. Those Christians have no knowledge of the distinction between,

1. Ten Commandments of God vs.
   
2. Mosaic Law (613 silly man-made cultural laws devised by Moses and the Hebrew people, i.e., if a woman doesn't bleed on her wedding night -- stone her brains out).

Anyway, I was so pleased to see the power of God's spirit move in my young son, to pick up the Bible on his own, proceed to find the scriptures in Exodus, and read it himself -- it was God teaching him. I was... amazed.

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